Real estate agents are a favorite pet peeve of mine. They mainly suck. Period.
It was the same story for travel agents and stockbrokers and they have become dinosaurs, those remaining offering much different and BETTER services than the old days.
The coming drop in home prices will drive a nail in the agent bubble and we have the internet to thank for that.
I need to find a search on Zillow for the homes of California real estate agents. There will be some bargoooons :) in the coming months.
I couldn’t agree more. This is Custer’s last stand. Where else can people with little skill or formal training in anything other than stupidity collect such massive paychecks “just because”? Now, there are some very capable people in this field but it is definitely the 80-20 rule. More like 95-5 if I could rewrite Pareto’s work.
NAR will be busted because their practices are anti-competitive. That process has been ongoing for some time and people attempting to pay their home and having to fork over 6% to some dimly lit sloth will likely start a fervor for change. At that time, the entire selling process will likely take on a new look. Frankly, in a consumer empowered economy, which is only going to strengthen over time, most people don’t need or want an agent. Just give us access to the damn listings which they oh so cleverly block today.
Hey, BDG123: should the great agents get 7 or 8%?
Howard: forget zillow. it’s not accurate.
Try: http://valueyourhome.realestatejournal.com/cvyh/rej/Input.aspx?Error=105
as long as zllow shows my home at more than I think its worrth – they are correct :)
Larry my man,
How’s life out there in Phoenix? I believe, as I do in any market, that the great leaders should get what a FREE and unfettered market will bear. So, but the NAR of their anticompetitive practices and let the markets decide. If that is 8% and the market will bear it, then so be it. If it’s 2%, then so be it.
As I recall Zillow has my house listed with something like 800sqft more than I have and quite a few other anamolies. It is a POS!
that was “bust” not “but”
BDG123 : This is a non-issue as Everything in a real estate contract is negotiable.
However, those dopes who think or write that agents simply sit back and get that “easy” 3% of $800,000 ($24,000) without doing much are wrong.
The nightmares using a discount agent are beyond belief, in which experienced agents wind up doing both sides, even though they only get paid for one side (3%).
Remember, in the many states, like mine, agents are licensed and trained to practice law: Real Estate law. Make a mistake on a contract and it can cost your client big money. (and, possibly your license)
People have no idea how much work agents do and never get paid – listings that expire unsold or cancelled or offers that get ignored or go nowhere. And, in a market like 2002-2005, with so few listings for sale all with multiple offers, agents make very little money (unless they own properties)in their brokerage business.
Please keep another point in mind: According to the Frank Russell and Co, the “manager of managers”, the S&P 500 (10.2%) and the average fund manager (12.2%) has outperformed the average investor (2.7%) over the past 30 years. Why? Because, individuals who handle their own accounts tend to make too many moves and at the wrong time greatly retarding long-term performance.
The point is that people should not handle these investment decisions without help and assistance from a trusted professional. A discounter is probably not that person.
Well Larry, I couldn’t disagree more. I’ve been involved in real estate quite often and most are idiots. I don’t care if they are in Arizona or elsewhere. Whether they are trained to loosely used term “”practice law”” or not. Only lawyers are LICENSED to practice law and I would not confuse the abilities of the average RA with the average attorney. The point is people shouldn’t have to “negotiate” something which is “locked” on the surface and locked illegally by anti-competitive practices. NAR’s practices are illegal and people are finally challenging this in the courts.
Your argument is a ruse that people aren’t smart enough to do their own diligence. They sure as hell are. Do you think Howard is capable? Are you capable? Am I capable? Others posting on this board? Maybe some people aren’t but they would choose an all encompassing palate of services and decide of their own free will to “pay up” were the markets allowed to function as they should and will.
Most money managers underperform their respective benchmark indices as well. So, those dimwits telling us to buy in 2000 are likely underperformers just like the average investor is. The 80-20 rule applies to everthing. It is not a rational argument to apply anti-competitive practices to the real estate agent market. Oh, and if it was such an arduous career, how come any dimwit capable of passing a mindless test can be licensed? That is why we have gazillions of agents now taking the tests. Ain’t like getting your MD, JD or PE license.
You may be an agent or may be in the industry or may know good friends who are agents but most are dimwits. I shouldn’t have to renegotiate the RA contract on a point by point basis nor have someone wink at me and say it’s negotiable if you know what you are doing. The markets will surely change and those clinging to the belief otherwise are going to be sadly disappointed.
Get ready for the change because it’s coming at some point. ROCK ON! lol.
boyz – love the back and forth
Larry – You call your peers (i am assuming you are a RE agent) “trusted professionals”? Oh boy. I have been a part of many RE transactions and i would not call any of the RE agents involved “trusted” or “professional”. Just the opposite, in fact. Given the skill level of the RE agents in practice, i wouldn’t let any of them “negotiate” on my behalf. Most couldn’t negotiate their way out of a paperbag. Prepare for disintermediation.
I agree with Parkite here. letting them do work for you is asking for trouble. Again – personal experiences – lots of them – only
“Whether they are trained to loosely used term “”practice law”” or not. Only lawyers are LICENSED to practice law and I would not confuse the abilities of the average RA with the average attorney. ”
SORRY, BUT THIS IS A FACT, EVEN IF YOU AND I DON’T THINK THAT THEY SHOULD. Moreover, most lawyers are dopes. So, you do seem to be a bit “confused”.
If the 80-20 rule applies to RE agents (no argument from me), then it has to 90-10 for lawyers and 95-5 for stock brokers.
It sounds like you guys don’t have enough faith in yourself to even know how to find a trusted advisor for: law, real estate invetments and financial planning. Now, that’s funny!
I can assure you all that 95% of the investing public has no ability to negotiate anything financial including a RE contract.
People who write, read and post here are not typical examples of average people.
If you say that 80% are no good, what’s wrong with you that you can’t find a 20 percenter?
Larry, Larry, Larry,
I just clicked on your link at viola! my suspicions were confirmed. You are a real estate agent! lol! Could this be more funny? Now I wouldn’t push so hard except you thoroughly discredited yourself with the incoherent ramblings about attorneys, stock brokers and my personal intelligence or lack thereof. lol.
Listen, you seem to be a very smart guy so no offense intended to you personally but since I’m an idiot and have a problem with compulsion, I can’t help myself but reply. So, please forgive me in advance. But, I must point you to the NATIONAL realtor code of ethics, article #13.
#13) Shall not practice law unless they are a lawyer.
Do I need to report you to your governing body or did you gloss over the ethics part of your profession?
I’m quite familiar with the legal education an agent must take in some states and it in no way affords you the opportunity to practice law. Nor does it supercede the requirements to have a real estate attorney or some other type of attorney involved in any real estate transaction.
Since I am not familiar with Arizona, maybe you could point us to the link in the state legal code or Arizona Supreme Court rulings which gives a real estate agent the right to practice law.
Btw, I’ve been thinking about challenging Roe v. Wade before the Supreme Court. Might you send me some of your prior arguments before the courts? I might be interested in hiring you as the head of my legal team.
Again, forgive me in advance for my compulsive personality disorder.
thats enough kids
BDG123 ,BDG123 ,BDG123
All states, in which an agent writes contracts is “practicing law” *man, this is painful*
Me? I handle special investors in commercial real estate. Since I write contracts, and they are legal documents, it’s defacto law practice, just in one specific area (allowed under Supreme Court rules in Arizona).
And, in my many years at Lehman Brothers, I met more dummies in the business than could fill the pit called Yankee Stadium.
I specifically excluded people, like you, who post here. Since you obviously know everything, you could represent yourself, no problem.
Please call me when your house goes up for sale……..
Howard Lindzon wrote: thats enough kids
I TAKE BACK EVERYTHING I SAID. I RETRACT IT ALL.
BDG123: Meet me at the pre-arranged place. Remember to bring cash. Small bills. Make sure that you aren’t followed and come alone and unarmed. No cops either. If you do exactly as you are told, I will release your brain to you unharmed. Remember, if you ever want to see your brain alive again, no tricks. Got it?